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Honest Argument: The USA should dissolve and embrace individualist anarchy
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The USA should dissolve and embrace individualist anarchy

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The USA should dissolve and embrace individualist anarchy  The USA should dissolve and embrace individualist anarchy
       The United States government oppresses its citizens.  The United States government oppresses its citizens.
              U.S. government uses its legal system, not violence  U.S. government uses its legal system, not violence
       Government authority is illegitimate  Government authority is illegitimate
              The U.S. government is democratically elected  The U.S. government is democratically elected
              This argument defeats itself  This argument defeats itself
       No national organization means no national defense  No national organization means no national defense
              Anarchy does not prohibit organization  Anarchy does not prohibit organization
                     Anarchism prohibits a defense of sufficient scale  Anarchism prohibits a defense of sufficient scale
              "Defense" powers are frequently abused  "Defense" powers are frequently abused
              There would still be a "national" defense.  There would still be a "national" defense.
                     Small arms are no longer a national defense  Small arms are no longer a national defense
                     The general population is untrained in defensive use of firearms  The general population is untrained in defensive use of firearms
                     Invasion of America would be extraordinarily easy without a unified defense  Invasion of America would be extraordinarily easy without a unified defense
       Societies are not built on ideologies  Societies are not built on ideologies
              Anarchy is not an ideology, it's an absence of state power  Anarchy is not an ideology, it's an absence of state power

Comments:




Has an anarchist "society" ever succeeded?

geniuiknowit - do you have any current or historic examples of anarchist "societies" that sustained themselves, much less prospered?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-05-25 16:14:35



Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succeeded?

Yes. In 1936 in Spain, several anarchist communities were created, and many prospered. The city of Aragon, for example, became 20% more productive. The societies did not last, though.

Comment by: fanghugger At: 2008-05-26 08:40:53



Re: comment: Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succee

fanghugger -

Doesn't the fact that the societies didn't last seem to suggest that they are unsustainable even on the scale of a city, let alone an entire nation?

And how are they defined as 20% more productive?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-05-27 16:01:14



Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succee

"Doesn't the fact that the societies didn't last seem to suggest that they are unsustainable"

No. It only indicated that they failed. The fact that something has not happened in the past has very little bearing on whether it can happen in the future. If we allow ourselves to be discouraged by every failure then we would never have any innovation--ranging from the establishment of a constitutional republic in the USA to the invention of the light bulb.

Comment by: ricketson At: 2008-05-31 18:39:40



Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succeeded

ricketson - good nodes, but I have to take issue with comparing the dissolution of the U.S. government with the establishment of our system of government or the invention of the lightbulb.

For one thing, there's the law of unintended consequences - implied in the node about national defense. Had the U.S. undertaken such an endeavor 70 years ago, or 50 years ago, the U.S. territory would likely be controlled by Germany, Japan, or the Soviet Union.

For another thing, the scale of such an endeavor renders the cost catastrophic in case of failure. For all practical purposes, it's an irreversible decision.

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-02 16:49:20



Re: node: This argument defeats itself

J-luck - this needs some explication. How does it defeat itself?

Also, are you referring to the illegitimacy of government (as implied by its placement), or the thesis - that the USA should dissolve into anarchy



Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-08-02 16:05:09



Re: comment: Re: comment: Re: node: He has no executive experien

Um was a governor and business owner.

Comment by: J-Luck At: 2008-08-05 00:59:43



Re: node: This argument defeats itself

Legitimate/illegitimate are probably not the words best suited for the argument. To keep from adding unnecessary complication by giving an explanation of why they are suitable words, I will revise the argument with another choice of words to clarify the argument. Thank you.

Comment by: geniusiknowit At: 2008-08-16 08:39:49



Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succee

What is your definition of "last?"
The Roman Republic didn't "last." Thus by your inference, no republic (the U.S. included) is sustainable.

Comment by: geniusiknowit At: 2008-08-16 08:47:34



Re: comment: Has an anarchist 'society' ever succee

The Roman Republic lasted 450 years and the successive Roman Empire lasted another 500 years.

As it happens, though, I do believe that "no republic (the U.S. included) is sustainable".

To your point though, the examples cited didn't last twenty years


Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-08-17 12:41:22



Re: node: Lack of training

"(if someone could help out, I'm looking for statistics on estimated amount of Americans who have been trained with firearms. I found some wildly varying statistics, with some as low as 2%, and some as high as 22%. If someone could find credible information, it would be appreciated. Preferably from a government agency. Ulysses, can you help?)"

This is one of those situations where it's more expedient to let the claim be made without a reference. If someone wishes to challenge it, they have the burden of citing a reference.

"(Also, Ulysses, if you could find the stats on military personell living in the united states, both active duty, and retired, that would help as a secondary statistic.)"

Googling "U.S. military as percentage of population" (no quotes) suggests:

http://wiki.answers.com/...
http://findarticles.com/...



Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-08-23 17:56:31



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