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Honest Argument: Abortion should remain legal, but only in certain circumstances
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Abortion should remain legal, but only in certain circumstances

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Abortion should remain legal, but only in certain circumstances  Abortion should remain legal, but only in certain circumstances
       When the health of the mother is threatened, an abortion should be legal throughout a pregnancy.  When the health of the mother is threatened, an abortion should be legal throughout a pregnancy.
              Only life or death situations for the mother, as determined by a doctor, warrant an abortion.  Only life or death situations for the mother, as determined by a doctor, warrant an abortion.
                     The mother should be the one to decide how much risk she is willing to assume to have a baby  The mother should be the one to decide how much risk she is willing to assume to have a baby
       Rape or incest are legitimate reasons to have an abortion  Rape or incest are legitimate reasons to have an abortion
              Even in instances of rape or incest, the child should not be punished for somethig it did not have control over.  Even in instances of rape or incest, the child should not be punished for somethig it did not have control over.
                     Using this logic, the mother should not be punished either.  Using this logic, the mother should not be punished either.
              Adoption protects the innocent baby and allows the mother to avoid having to parent a baby she was forced to conceive.  Adoption protects the innocent baby and allows the mother to avoid having to parent a baby she was forced to conceive.
                     A young woman who is raped or molested should not have to carry a baby to full term after being victimized.  A young woman who is raped or molested should not have to carry a baby to full term after being victimized.
              Determining whether a rape or incest occurred is sometimes difficult  Determining whether a rape or incest occurred is sometimes difficult
                     As long as the abortion is performed during the first trimester whether rape or incest occurred is moot  As long as the abortion is performed during the first trimester whether rape or incest occurred is moot
       First trimester abortions should be allowed for ANY reason.  First trimester abortions should be allowed for ANY reason.
              Terminating an innocent life is wrong no matter when you do it.  Terminating an innocent life is wrong no matter when you do it.
                     That's a debatable religious assertion  That's a debatable religious assertion
                            The US legal system supports the idea that killing an innocent person is wrong  The US legal system supports the idea that killing an innocent person is wrong
                                   Roe v Wade denies that fetuses are persons  Roe v Wade denies that fetuses are persons
                                   a fetus is not a person  a fetus is not a person
                     There are times when "terminating an innocent life" may be morally justified  There are times when "terminating an innocent life" may be morally justified
                     Law is somewhat independent of morality  Law is somewhat independent of morality
              Allowing abortion to be used as "birth control" should not be allowed  Allowing abortion to be used as "birth control" should not be allowed
                     Financial cost makes abortion prohibitive as a mere birth control method  Financial cost makes abortion prohibitive as a mere birth control method
                     Promoting birth control reduces abortions  Promoting birth control reduces abortions
                     Contraceptives often not available or discouraged  Contraceptives often not available or discouraged
                            Those who oppose abortion have a different agenda- imposing a repressive sexual morality on all  Those who oppose abortion have a different agenda- imposing a repressive sexual morality on all
       Women's Constitutional right to privacy permits abortions REGARDLESS of the reason  Women's Constitutional right to privacy permits abortions REGARDLESS of the reason
              The right to privacy is derived, not delineated  The right to privacy is derived, not delineated
       Women, like men, should ALWAYS have the power to make decsions about their body.  Women, like men, should ALWAYS have the power to make decsions about their body.
       Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed but with significant restrictions  Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed but with significant restrictions
              As a pregnancy progresses, the fertilized egg becomes increasingly "human," and deserving of moral and legal consideration  As a pregnancy progresses, the fertilized egg becomes increasingly "human," and deserving of moral and legal consideration
                     Moral consideration does not necessarily imply legal protection whle inisde the mother  Moral consideration does not necessarily imply legal protection whle inisde the mother
              Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed if the baby has serious health issues  Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed if the baby has serious health issues
              Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed if the mother's life is in danger  Second and third trimester abortions should be allowed if the mother's life is in danger
       Abortion is a procedure that many women demand  Abortion is a procedure that many women demand

Comments:




Re: node: Financial cost makes abortion prohibitive as a mere bi

Hi Ulysses,

My point is that many women have abortions for reasons other than their own health or safety. In doing this, they are using abortion as a form of post facto birth control. Some would consider this a frivolous reason to terminate a pregancy. Also, I imagine many women do not actually pay for the procedure out of their own pocket.


Comment by: joetab24 At: 2008-06-22 04:32:43



Re: comment: Re: node: Financial cost makes abortion prohibitive

I agree that abortion is not always chosen for health or safety reasons - perhaps, even, in the majority of cases.

Nevertheless, this assertion is usually made by people as if a conscious choice was made before sex occurs that abortion would be the preferred method of birth control. Not to mention the fact that almost all pro-life groups are opposed to birth control in any form other than the rhythm method.

Who pays for it is irrelevant. Nobody is performing abortions for free, and it's not covered by insurance, except, perhaps, in cases where the mother's life is threatened.

Further, there are significant costs to abortion beyond financial - emotional, psychological, social. It's not like going to the doctor for a flu shot.

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-22 18:02:07



For a little clarity

Are you arguing that abortion should always be legal in certain circumstances, or should only be legal in certain circumstances?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-23 13:01:21



Re: comment: For a little clarity

One more clarification then ... should the node "Significant weight needs to be given to the woman to decide whether or not she wants a baby"

be changed to a refuting node that argues something like "The woman should have the final determination under any circumstances"?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-24 05:49:05



Re: comment: Re: comment: For a little clarity

I think:

"The mother should be the one to decide how much risk she is willing to assume to have a baby"

and

"Significant weight needs to be given to the woman to decide whether or not she wants a baby"

are similar enough that the latter statement can be removed.

Thanks for helping me clarify this argument.

Comment by: joetab24 At: 2008-06-24 09:16:30



Re: node: Promoting birth control reduces abortions

Does this point fit into this argument? If so, it doesn't seem to fit here. Any thoughts?

Comment by: joetab24 At: 2008-06-25 20:23:47



Re: comment: Promoting birth control reduces abortions

Absolutely. And an excellent point it is. It works where it is.

I've also been thinking of adding a new node type that communicates something along the lines of "yes, but". In the context of this argument, I would use it under the significant weight given to the woman node to add a node saying "yes, but significant weight should also be given to the father in preventing an abortion"

what do you think?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-25 21:09:34



Re: comment: Re: comment: Promoting birth control reduces aborti

Regarding the point about birth control reducing abortion, I understand it but I need someone to explain how it fits where it does. (I apologize for being slow on this :)...)

The point about the father is worth adding. I had a similar thought also.

Comment by: joetab24 At: 2008-06-26 03:40:09



Re: comment: Promoting birth control reduces aborti

It supports your point that "Many first trimester abortions are for birth control". More birth control means less accidental pregnancies means less first trimester abortions

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-26 07:43:54



Re: comment: Re: comment: Promoting birth control reduces aborti

Oh...Ok...Thanks for clarifying.

Comment by: joetab24 At: 2008-06-26 10:25:44



Re: node: Second and third trimester abortions should be restric

Why should they be restricted?

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-28 13:25:24



joetab24

Really great work exploring the contours of this Argument

Comment by: Ulysses Berman At: 2008-06-30 13:02:53



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